It appears that the Obama administration is spying on churches and using the IRS to punish churches about their 501c3 tax exempt status (H/T AtlasShrugs). According to the article, the Obama administration has a program of snooping on the activity in and by churches. The collected church intelligence deals with members who are with Tea Party or who speak publically about guns. (Remember: “cling to their guns and Bibles”.) Some ministers believe that agents may have joined churches to spy.
As bizarre as this may seem, it dovetails with other known Obama administration views. Homeland Security has a profile (yes, all law enforcement uses profiling) of the pro-life, pro-gun, pro-Constitution and pro-Bible white Christian as being a potential terrorist.
We do know that the IRS has targeted conservatives, pro-Israel, pro-life, Tea Party and even Billy Graham. When the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association backed the North Carolina ballot initiative about gay marriage, it was notified by the IRS that its tax exempt status was going to be revoked. In the end it was not revoked, but the threat cost money, time and hassle.
All of this has the desired effect of chilling free speech in the churches.
Here is the point: there is no outcry from the churches! This lack of outrage is a measure of the health of Christianity in America-so weak that it cannot even protest the abuse. But, we already knew how morally weak the church is in its response to rape, theft, enslavement and murder of Christians throughout the Islamic world. Christians are the most persecuted demographic group in the world. Over 100,000 thousand Christians died last year, and the response of the churches is to smile and hold a dialog with Muslims who are brothers with the jihadist persecutors. Dhimmi ministers speak of loving their Muslim neighbors, but show no concern for dead Christians. The day of a minister having a Bible in one hand and a newspaper in the other is over. The new gospel is: What, me worry?
Why does the moral and spiritual decay of the church matter to a counter-jihadist? This is a civilizational war and our spiritual flank is unprotected. Instead of the church being a guard dog, it is a poodle. Ministers cannot even protect their own flocks, much less the nation. Back in the past the church was the foundation of the nation and a guardian of our society. But now the church won’t even bark at an enemy-foreign or domestic. All the church wants is a scratch behind the ears by the intruder. (In fairness, only 95% of the churches are being condemned here.) To be complete, the synagogues are a swamp of ignorance and cowardliness, as well.
So, to the counter-jihadist the church is at best a dead weight of massive ignorance and is frequently found in bridge-building dialogues with the enemy-Islam.
Bill Warner, Director, Center for the Study of Political Islam
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19 Responses
mixi
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Patricia Spayd
If we want to know how peaceful Islam is, read Ayaan Hirsi Ali books, “The Caged Virgin”, “Nomad” and “Infidel” – I’m sure Hirsi and Dr. Warner would have a lot in common on their beliefs! She lived under this 7th century barbarian’s rules (called Islam) and rejected it. Ran away from it. Her debates on the internet against Islam is epic. She is most outspoken against the West’ politically correct softening these many attacks against “People of the Book” means just People for the Slaughter or Fools to listen to Peace in Islam. Muslim women need education, and educated women raise educated men – not 7th century barbarians who insist that women be hidden under black fabric so that the men won’t rape them. Doesn’t sound peaceful to me! Islam = Barbarian 7th Century backwater claptrap. I read the Koran – took me one week and I was appalled.
Jake-a-runi
I was in grammar school when the words under God were inserted into our Pledge of Allegiance like a suppository. For me, it was the beginning of an epiphany. I was later removed from Methodist Sunday school for unbelief. (I still have their bible.)
I suggest that the words under God be replaced with free from theocracy to return our Pledge to the political statement it was intended to be. Anyone wanting to swear their loyalty to make-believe and fantasy will have to do so on their own time.
[I hope html is observed here. If not, “under God” and “free from theocracy” are supposed to be italicized.]
David T. Stone
Amir Basheer didn’t describe how Muslim men like having anal sex with other men and young boys; that according to Islam it is ok as long as they are not receiving.
They describe it this way. “Women are for having children and males are for fun, (meaning sex).
This is a sick, degenerate, so called religion.
These people should be wiped off the face of the earth.
David T. Stone
I’d like to know what 5% of the Christian Churches is fighting Islam; I’d like to join them in there crusade.
I have lived and worked in many Middle East countries; and have been friends with Muslims, been to there homes and broke bread with them. I have seen with my own eyes how servants from other countries are treated (mostly Phillipeanos and Indians). They are treated like slaves. I have heard with my own ears how they view these people and westerners as well. We are truly [the enemy].
Don’t turn your back on them, they will stick a knife in it!
DTS
Brother Mark
Mr. Amir Basheer,
“I will like to indulge in more dialogues. I will be eager to see this message published. Hoping to get some critics about my comments”.
http://talktruthful.com/2013/01/18/was-islam-spread-by-the-sword-really/
You may wish to make a special note of the “Islam means peace” section.
As a Buddhist monk who is witnessing his Buddhist neighbors, male and female, young children and old alike as well as my fellow Buddhist monks here in Thailand being butchered, stoned to death and hung from trees on a very consistent basis by the so called ‘misunderstanders’ of Islam for the perceived crime of being Buddhist, I would be more than happy to engage you or any Muslim in a rational and constructive dialog. You certainly have a dialog with me waiting to happen!
…and thank you as well for the opportunity!
Do reply, now won’t you?
Bhikkhu aggacitto a.k.a. Brother Mark:)
Brother Mark
Upasaka Bill Warner,
“Back in the past the church was the foundation of the nation”…
I respect your work over all, but a statement like this only perpetuates the Christian myth that The United States of America was founded upon the Christian religion.
I believe that if anything, our founding fathers made sure that it was not.
The pledge of allegiance in our public schools and “In God we Trust” so copiously displayed on our currency among other things were developments of the McCarthy era, in it’s struggle against “Godless communism.”
Give a look and tell me what you think…
http://talktruthful.com/2012/11/02/93/
Respectfully,
Bhikkhu aggacitto a.k.a. Brother Mark:)
Gerald Mucci
I hope Dave Johnson is speaking of his specific church and not the churches of the United States. If he is speaking of the churches of the US he is himself deluded and part of the problem and makes Bill’s point well.
Dave, if your church is one of the 5%, congratulations. If you dispute the fact of the existence of the 95% of churches being an oblivious dead weight (at best), then you are part of the 95%.
As for synagogues, Bill is spot on as well.
American "true" Christian
In reference to Amit Basheer’s post. I noticed that this Muslin never brought up the killing and Murdering of radical islam members, did he? Killing and murdering of people is the way of Islam. Don’t let any fool tell you different.
Churches, news media, and the government, in this country refuse to take on the lies of Islam.
Last point, Islam is not a RELIGION.It’s a radical polictical movement that hides behind religion and statements like “Peace be with you” and “Religion of Peace” .Never believe anything a Muslim tell you. They will lie to you, cheat you and steal from. If you are not a Muslim you are lower than a pig in their eyes.
Dan
“A person can go to heaven only based on his good deeds so a muslim can only go to heaven if he has done more good deeds than bad deeds during his life term.”
The biggest lie in the Koran is the idea that a righteous holy God would forgive sins based on our own efforts.
No one can go to heaven only based on their good deeds. We are sinners, so all we can do is sin. Any ‘good deeds’ we do can never atone for our corrupt nature and our sins/crimes. We cannot buy God’s favour with good works/deeds.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Ephesians 2:8, 9
A Righteous, Holy Creator, an infinite God of infinite justice, cannot but require an overall account of and reckoning for sin and crime.
But, he has provided a means of escape from this reckoning and punishment through sacrificing himself in our place. The price of redemption, which is infinitely beyond our means, could only have been paid for by an infinite God with infinite means (which exposes the folly of trying to gain salvation through works).
The god of the Koran is really none other than Satan himself.
The basic nature of the devil is best described by the following verse.
“He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks what is natural to him, for he a liar and the father of lies and of all that is false.” John 8:44
Amir Basheer
Dear Friends,
I am a Muslim living in Budapest, Hungary. I was born into a a mulim family and have been following the religion for the past 30 years.
I came across this site while i was browsing through some videos in youtube. It is really encouraging that the administrators of this forum is trying to engage the readers about islam.
I went through few of your articles and i found that the writers have a few misconceptions about islam, although i am not an expert or a scholar in islam i will try to address them with the limited knowledge i have.
1. What is Quran?
Quran is the collection of verses or instructions which was given to prophet Muhammed (Peace be upon him) by Allah (Allah is the arabic word for “The God”) through his angel Jibreel (Gabriel).
2. What is Mushaf?
The written down version of Quran is called Mushaf. More often people mushaf is mistaken for Quran. Mushaf is one of the ways in which quran exist. So the book you call as quran is actually called mushaf which is a book that carries quran.
3. Who is prophet Muhammed?
Prophet Muhammed is the seal of prophet hood meaning he is the last prophet to whom god had sent his messages through Jibriel. There were many prophets in islam before prophet. There are a few prophets mentioned in Quran Eesah maseeh (Jesus), Moosa (Moses), Yousuf(Joseph), Ibrahim (Abraham), Ishaq(Issac son of ibrahim), Ismail(son of ibrahim), Nooh (Noah) and Adam (peace be upon all of them).
4. what is islam?
Literally islam mean submit to the will of god. The word is islam is derived from the word salam which means peace. So when we say Islam it means attaining peace by submitting to the will of god. As mentioned by the author of this forum is not a religion in its true sense. It is actually a political, economic, social and spiritual system which guarantees peace of mind to a person and to the society.
5. Who is a muslim?
To be a muslim is to believe cetain principles and to perform certain actions based on the belief.
A muslim has to
1. believe in the one god
2. believe in Angels
3. in books of god (Tawrath(sent to moses), Injeeh(sent to jesus), Zabur(sent to David) and Quran(Sent to prophet muhammed (Peace be upon all of them)
4. believe in messengers of god(Adam, noah, abraham, ishaak, ismail, Davud, Sulaiman, Moses, jesus, mohammed (Peace be upon all of them ) being some of them)
5. believe in the judgement day(to be a muslim one has to be believe that all his deeds will be scrutinized and he will be granted with heaven or hell based on his or her deeds.
6. believe that all the good (seemingly) and bad (seemingly) are predestined by god.
6. Who is a mu’min?
A mu’min is a person who performs islam with heart and his actions.
to be a mu’min a muslim has to perform the following mandatory deeds.
a. Shahadath – Bare witness that there is only one god and prophet muhammed is the message of god (Peace be upon him)
b. Salath – He/she has to perfrom salath(prayer) 5 times a day.
c. Sawm – He or she will have to fast during the month of ramadan
d. Zakath – Has to pay yearly tax of 2.5% of earning to the authorities which will be collectively distributed to the less privileged people. zakath is not charity it is a form of taxation which the government or local authorities needs to collect and the government or local authority has to distribute it to the needy.
e. perform the Hajj once in their life time.
7. Who is Ahlul kitab (People of the books)?
Ahlul kitab is the people to who the holy books were sent prior to prophet muhammed this being the followers of torah, injeel and zaboor this can be translated to christians and jews.
8. Who is a mushrik?
Mushrik is a person who performs shirk. A mushrik believes there is more than one god.
9. Who is a kaffir?
Kaffir is a person who deliberately disbelieve. A person to become kaffir has to get the message of quran and then after getting convinced that quran is the true message of god has to deliberately decide to openly oppose the message of quran. Literal meaning of kaffir is somebody who hides the truth.
Based on the above points i will like to put forward certain important bullet points.
a. Every non muslim is not a kaffir unless he or she has understood that the quran is the word of god and deliberately takes a decision to not accept it.
b. having a muslim name or being born in to muslim parents is no guarantee for heaven after judgement day. A person can go to heaven only based on his good deeds so a muslim can only go to heaven if he has done more good deeds than bad deeds during his life term.
c. God is most forgiving and merciful, God is ready to forgive any and every sin other than shirk
d. God treats all the human being equally in earth and gives special privileges to people who did good deeds in earth and punishes the people who did fasad (corruption, unlawful warfare, or crimes against law and order) during the judgement day. After the judgement day people live in heaven or hell based on their deeds. Hell is like a prison so every person will be given punishment based on the magnanimity of their crimes. So a person who did less crime will be given less hell and once the punishment is over they get to move to heaven where they will be attaining peace.
e. Islam is a continuation of the work of jesus moses and other prophets before him. prophet muhammed came with the same message of that of all the previous prophets.
f. when quran says “kull ya ayyuhal kafiroon” oh non believers it does not talk to the christians or jews or any other non muslim but it is specifically talking to the kafiroon, the people who are deliberately hiding the truth.
g. In an islamic state all the muslims have pay zakath this is mandatory and the non muslims who are living in the islamic state have to pay a tax in return they get to keep their faith and they can perform their own religion and government is obliged to give protection to the homes and religious places like church.
I will like to indulge in more dialogues. I will be eager to see this message published. Hoping to get some critics about my comments.
Thank you for the opportunity.
I will end my comment with islamic salutation
Assalamu alaikum
(Peace be upon you)
Democracyistheanswer
‘Poodles’ are more outspoken than most Christian leaders.
Time for leadership in defense of the Christian martyrs of Islam…100,000 each year.
No more!
Democracyistheanswer
Church leaders are showing cowardice when they fail to speak a word on behalf of the persecuted churches.
It is shameful for Christian clergy to favor ‘dialogue’ with Moslem clerics over defending the martyrs of the 21st century, most of whom are persecuted by Moslems.
This ‘dialoge’ is merely an opportunity to perform ‘taqiyya’ and ‘kitman’…Islamic disinformation intended to lay ‘red herrings’ before the Christian churches that will keep Christians vulnerable in Moslem countries.
John Houk
D. Johnson I am gratified that you belong to a vibrant Church that is willing to tackle politically correct taboos; i.e. taboo according to the IRS. However, you have got to realize most mainline Churches are morally weak because they validate ungodly morals such as homosexuality or are so entrenched in Multiculturalism they fall for Anti-Israel and Pro-Muslim Apologist propaganda.
Most of the Churches willing to take a Free Speech stand in what comes from their pulpits are typically willing to get in a fight with the IRS. A lot of medium to small Churches just do not have the resources to take on the IRS. In which their only choice is their non-profit tax deductible status or engage to engage in IRS-Obama scrutiny that probably will result in the loss of their 501c3 without resources to battle the IRS.
Regina
Spot on the (heh heh)
Regina
“The church is vibrant and alive and changing lives?” Lol) Hmm? Something is awful fishy.. If that were the case then I doubt we’d be in this boat. Why so defensive? This storm is moving rapidly and most people who should be paying attention are not. Most Christians I’ve talked to don’t bring it up..then when whenever the subject is brought up, they act astonished then brush it off as if we should just be more positive? Probably never peeked at barenakedislam.com
Again, if everyone (this isn’t average) was paying attention the enemy wouldn’t of gained so much ground! How many voted for Obummer? How many of them still use schools for a babysitter? How many send them off to day care or get that sappy look on their face when they mention college? That is the heart of the matter.
A big thanks to Bill Warner..this was spit on!
Paul
You wrote: “To be complete, the synagogues are a swamp of ignorance and cowardliness, as well.”
Agreed. You should expect that in any house of statism and superstition.
D. Johnson
Well, let’s see: This lack of outrage is a measure of the health of Christianity in America
That offends me. I know MANY Christians who are actively involved in the Tea Party and political arena. I even know some personally who have been running for office for this very reason. The church is strong in their voices against such things. They are VERY outraged.
we already knew how morally weak the church is in its response to rape, theft, enslavement and murder of Christians throughout the Islamic world
Really? Morally weak? You obviously have not heard our sermons which preaches and teaches against such things constantly. Christians are talking to others about this and addressing our representatives. Our resolve on these things are strong, not morally weak.
the response of the churches is to smile and hold a dialog with Muslims
Really again? I know of NO one in the church who is doing such things. We all talk in all aspects of the church and without how the Muslims are practically doing Satan’s bidding. Dialog indeed….
The new gospel is: What, me worry?
Are you kidding me? We are all worried sick about the direction we see and we are speaking out all the time on these issues. The media just doesn’t want to hear it or forward our views because we seem so narrow minded.
Ministers cannot even protect their own flocks, much less the nation
This is very offensive as well. I have been and continue to be a devout leader in the church and I protect the church boldly and with passion and great care as does all the other ministers/pastors I know. However…it is not the church’s duty to protect the nation they live under. They influence and encourage but the world is on it’s own in spiritual matters because that is what they have chosen.
But now the church won’t even bark at an enemy
Wrong again…
All the church wants is a scratch behind the ears by the intruder….To be complete, the synagogues are a swamp of ignorance and cowardliness, as well.
I take high offense to those statements as well. The church is not sulking in cowardice but is making differences in the lives of so many around the globe and at the cost of their very lives I must add. You have said that even yourself. I’d like to see you stand face to face with threats on your life and stick to your word knowing they would probably kill or torture you if you did. You are walking around with blinders on. I know a number of good friends who put their lives on the line daily because of where they are and what they are teaching. Ignorance?? The church is FULL of scholars in the word and of the history of the church. I am not a novice myself on these matters.
I do not appreciate his article. What I think is that you are looking at the large majority who call themselves the church or Christians but simply are not. They are following their own agenda setting up leaders who tell them all is ok and here is how you feel good about everything getting their itching ears scratched with pseudo-truths and lies. They have perverted the word so much that they don’t even know the truth if it hit them in the face. They hear only what they wish to hear and leave out the rest because it might expose the lies in their lives. THAT group is what you referring to as the church and they simply are not. Just in name only. I agree THAT group are a weak lot that will NEVER stand up to adversity and persecution. Christ describes them in this manner:
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
No, the church is vibrant and alive and changing lives.
Felsen Stark
I’m glad you added that only 95% of churches/synagogues are being condemned in the article.
There are approximately 6000 assembles in the USA that join together once a year. They each video tape a service that is clearly political (to non-members) and then send a copy to the IRS daring them to watch the video and to remove their tax exempt status. This year’s videos were sent out two weeks ago. This is just one effort that I know of, there may be others. Plus many individual members of diverse denominations tirelessly fight against Islamic teachings.
Lets say 5% of churches/synagogues are involved in the fight against Islam. That would be the highest of any type of organization.
Percent of secular Colleges and Universities that are involved in the counter-jihad: 0% Businesses: 0%. Governmental Organizations 0%. Secular Charitable Organizations 0%. Feminist Organizations 0% LGBT groups 0%.