The article, Separating the Kafirs from the Muslims, drew a comment from a rabbi. His comments are prototypical of many apologists for Islam, so it is worth responding to. Let’s take it one point at a time:
[this article] takes a particular version of Islam and claims that the claims of those who follow it are representative of the entire faith. They claim this, but the claim is false. An analogy would be a non-Christian saying that the KKK is typical of Christianity and, as those in the KKK insist, this is the truest form of that faith. This is false logic.
Actually, the article does not say that the al Shabaab jihadists represent Islam. What the article says is the language of the jihadists comes from the Islamic doctrine of jihad. This mistake is the crux of the matter. No one Muslim represents Islamic doctrine since Islam has a dualistic ideology. Let’s take the Islamic attitude about Jews. In the early Koran written in Mecca, it is very favorable towards Jews, since Mohammed makes the claim to be of the Jewish lineage of prophets. But when he moved to Medina, which was half Jewish, the rabbis of Medina informed Mohammed that he was not a prophet in their linage and rejected him. The Koran takes a turn for the worse and calls the Jews apes and pigs. The shift in attitude can best be seen in a simple word count:
| Meccan Koran | 960 words | 0.99% of Meccan Koran |
| Medinan Koran | 9282 words | 16.9% of Medinan Koran |
Amount of Koranic Text Devoted to anti-Jew
So is the Koran pro Jew or anti Jew? Yes, it is both. That is the neat thing about dualism; you can get either answer. The point here is that there are always two choices in dualistic Islam. In the end, Mohammed annihilated all of the Jews in Medina in about three years. Medina was Judenrein. But in the beginning, he was friendly and charming about the Jews.
The point here is that Muslims can be friendly to Jews or Jew haters and in both cases be Islamic. It is the same with jihad. Islam is peaceful; Islam is jihad. So al Shabaab is based on the Medinan part of Islam; the Muslims at the Family of Abraham religious dialogue are following the Meccan Islam.
The word “Kefir” is cognate to the Hebrew “kofer” which means “apostate.” From the Muslim point of view they represent the true Abrahamic faith while Jews and Christians, in denying the validity of Islam, are apostates or infidels. I’ve met plenty of Christians who believe the same about Muslims and Jews. Jews do not need such a doctrine because we believe that all people who live an ethical life get a reward in the next world.
The rabbi brings up the very important aspect of ethics. Islam is the only “universal” religion that does not have Golden rule. Indeed, Islamic ethics are dualistic, with one set of rules for Muslims and a separate set of rules for Kafirs. I wonder if apostate Jews are under a death ruling as Muslim apostates are?
But, there is another ethical issue here. The worst human rights violation of today is the jihadic murder of nearly 100,000 Christians every year in the most horrible ways. I wonder if the rabbi ever brings up this issue to Muslims. If not then he is guilty of silence in the face of evil. Islamic law treats silence as consent, so in the eyes of Islam, the rabbi supports the oppressor, Islam, and abandons the victims—Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists (Kafirs all).
The assertion that most of the Koran is about Kefirs and not about how to be a Muslim is plainly false as anyone who actually reads the Koran knows.
Not only is my count correct, here is the data for the Meccan Koran and the Medinan Koran Not only do I assert that the majority of the Koran is about the Kafir, but will go further and say that the majority of the Sira, 82%, (the canonic biography of Mohammed, a sacred text) is about Kafirs, as well.
The Meccan suras of the Koran discuss “peoples of the book” (Jews and Christians with the book being the Bible). They are not to be persecuted so long as those who live in the Muslim world follow the law of the land and respect Islam.
This deceiving statement puts a pleasant face on 1400 years of political and social subordination by Islam against all Kafir religions. The law of the land for Islam is the Sharia, a legal code of pure evil. Here are some details of respecting Islam taken from the Treaty of Umar written about Christians (Jews were under similar dhimmi laws):
We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks’ cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.
We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.
We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims.
We shall not teach the Koran to our children.
We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.
We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.
We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas.
We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons.
We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.
We shall not sell fermented drinks.
We shall clip the fronts of our heads.
We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists
We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.
We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.
The Koran says “there shall be no compulsion in religion.” That, of course, has been violated in some times and places. Also in practice, non-Muslims have a kind of second-class citizenship called dhimmi.
The “no compulsion in religion” is an early verse. The Koranic law of abrogation says that the later verse is stronger or better than the earlier verse. Verses written after the nice “no-compulsion” verse say that the Christians and Jews who do not submit to Islamic supremacy can be killed. The man who does not understand abrogation should not use the Koran.
Mohammed treated everybody well upon the first meeting. But when they did not submit to his ways, they were enslaved, murdered, raped and annihilated. The record is very clear. Mohammed, the perfect model of a sacred life, was a Jew killer, a pagan killer and a Christian killer. So says the Sira.
This brief essay is intentionally inflammatory and there are many other errors of fact in it as well as misuse of the terms cited. This is hate literature.
And now the rabbi fires his best shot—“this is hate literature”. Go back and read the article this is in response to. It addresses the actual language of the jihadist killers of Kafirs. It then shows that this language is taken directly from Islamic war doctrine. Next the article says that all people, not just Muslims, should use the correct naming and verbiage of the Islamic doctrine. Nowhere is any individual demeaned and not even the hateful doctrine even criticized. Show me the hate.
Muslim jihadist murder innocents, but I am the hater for talking about it. Go figure. What his term “hate” means is that the article violates the progressive multicultural dogma. The word “hate” no longer means immorality but political disagreement. This is an example of name calling, the weakest logical position.
I will give you an example of the falsity of this anti-Muslim literature. The practice of female genital mutilation is frequently cited. In fact this is not a requirement of any faith and it is practiced by ethnic groups that are Christian as well as Muslim. It is connected to ethnicity rather than religion, but Islamophobes frequently falsely claim it is a specifically Muslim practice.
Since the article makes no mention of female genital mutilation, where does this come from? It is a straw man. But now that the rabbi has brought the Islamic treatment of women up, let us take note of the fact that the Koran, 4:34, and the Sunna say that women can be beaten. Mohammed advises: Never ask a man why he beats his wife. Allah says that wives who do not obey the husband can be beaten. Wife beating is pure Islam. I would love to hold a talk with the rabbi about the treatment of women under the Sharia.
People like Warner use an academic disguise to give weight to their promotion of hate and fear. The problem, is not Islam, but fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism. Those who think they represent ultimate truth perversely often think they have a license to lie.
Let’s take these insults one a time. “academic disguise” is what he calls facts from the Koran, Sira, Hadith and Islamic political history.
“The problem is not Islam” Really? The Islamic doctrine is one of jihad, oppression of religious minorities, violence against women, enslavement and hatred of the Kafir. Islamic jihad has murdered 270 million over the last 1400 years and there have been over 22,000 jihad attacks since September 11, 2001. Islam is the problem.
In a discussion about Islam, we come to his crabbing about Christians. The rabbi’s comments have a slight flavor of Islamo-philia and Christo-phobia. Muslim jihadists kill Christians in the Westgate Mall (Kenya is about 90% Christian) which is owned by Jews and he speaks negatively about Christians.
I find that when a discussion about Islam turns to the Christians, it is because the person does not know enough about Islamic doctrine to carry forward. So they change the subject to one they know about.
What our rabbi does not seem to realize is that under Sharia law, Christians and Jews are in the same boat. After the Saturday people come the Sunday people.
As to “fundamentalism”, every Muslim believes the Koran is the exact, complete and perfect words of the only god. Every Muslim believes that Mohammed is the perfect model for all behavior. When Muslims say that they are believers that is what they mean. Every Muslim is a literalist; does that make every Muslim a fundamentalist? And why is being a fundamentalist bad? The case that a liberal interpretation is a better intellectual choice is not advanced, just assumed. It is not a matter of fundamentalism, but the truth of the Koran and the Sunna. Any scholar who reads the Koran and has studied world religious literature sees that the Koran is actually a derivative work that only advances two new ideas:
- Mohammed is the prophet of Allah is the new truth introduced in Mecca.
- The Medinan Koran introduces the new idea that if you do not accept Mohammed as the prophet of Allah, then you can be harmed.
The rabbi does not actually comment on whether he submits to the “truth” of the Koran. Rabbi, is the Koran true or false? Is Mohammed the divine human prototype? I hold that the Koran is a man made document and that Mohammed was deluded. That is why I am a Kafir.
L’shalom,
After calling me a hater and a liar, the rabbi signs off with peace.
There is a tragedy that goes far beyond his ignorance. Imagine that he is giving advice about the threat to Israel. Since he argues that jihadists are not real Muslims, he cannot understand the jihad against Israel as an expression of Islamic political doctrine. He cannot even use the jihad doctrine as a plan B to interpret political action on the ground to defend Israel.
What will this rabbi do when a woman of his congregation comes to him for advice about marrying a Muslim? Will he be able to tell her the facts about a Sharia marriage or will he give her his romantic fantasy about how we are all one happy family of Abraham?
Knowledge must come before wisdom. Rabbi, get yourself a copy of Mark Durie’s The Third Choice (he is an Anglican priest) or if you cannot read what a Christian writes about Mohammed, then read Andrew Bostom’s Islamic Legacy of Islamic Anti-Semitism (warning, it is a more difficult read) so that you can take the first step towards being a wise leader of the Jews. Or, if the rabbi can stand the vitriolic Jew hatred from Islamic clerics (yes, they are real Muslims practicing real Islam), check out the MEMRI website .
Bill Warner, Director, Center for the Study of Political Islam
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19 Responses
Mia
Phillip Bentley, long time radical left Israel Hater.
Rabbi Philip Bentley of Agudas Israel Congregation of Hendersonville, NC – Israel Hating Clown and Hamas fellow traveler.
Read More:
http://calneocon.typepad.com/blog/2011/04/rabbi-phillip-bentley-of-agudas-israel-congregation-of-hendersonville-nc-israel-hating-clown-and-ham.html
Tom
Jamal, If you read all the four Gospels you will understand how Jesus spoke to his disciples. He spoke in parables and metaphors. The passage you mention where Jesus talks of his message being a sword can be easily understood if you consider what the reaction of a Muslim family whose son decides renounce Islam and become a Christian. There is definitely no peace in that situation. Accepting Christ has brought division and strife for many many people. Muslims like you arecsuch hypocritical liars that you will use a fine tooth comb to make Jesus into a Mohammed like figure, and yet ignore Mohammed’s violent lifestyle and try and portray him like a Christ like figure.
Alex Caswell
Jamal, how about “striking the head from the unbelievers”, what’s that to be done with, a very stale baguette ?
Jamal
the Bible says” Jesus say i did not come for peace but sword”
my challenge is can you show me one verse in the Koran which mentions the word ” Sword” i Challenge you DR Bill Warmer
the word Sword is mentioned in the Bible alot of Time that means the Bible is a book of Hates and stands for War.
JohnIslam
For and to Rabbi Philip J Bentley ,
I stand firmly with you. May allah protect you when the day we MUSLIM xxxx all the KAFIR , the people of the BOOK and the JEWS.
Dear JEWISH Rabbi Philip J Bentley ,
I have instructed all 1.5 billion MUSLIM to protect you the ONLY jew when the day come for the ULTIMATE….oops I cannot say…But below verse, speaks of iiself…But forgive me, if some MUSLIM wants you xxxxx. Becasue the koran and hadith is ALLAH words and must be complied.
The Quran:
As mentioned, there are nearly 500 verses from 87 Suras that speak of Hell. This is just a sample:
Quran (40:71-72) – When the fetters and the chains shall be on their necks; they shall be dragged Into boiling water, then in the fire shall they be burned
Quran (22:19-21) – But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron
Quran (4:56) – Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise
Quran (56:92-94) – But if he is of the rejecters, the erring, then the welcome will be boiling water and roasting at hell-fire
As to what regard Muslims are to show for those who don’t believe, the Quran says to be ruthless toward them, since they are going to Hell anyway:
Quran (9:73) – O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination
Quran (66:9) – O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey’s end.
Quran (8:55) – Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve
Quran (9:30) – And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah… Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
Quran (4:52) – Those (Christians) are they whom Allah hath cursed…
Quran (4:47) – O you (Jews) who have been given the Book! believe that which We have revealed, verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violaters of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed.
Quran (5:59-60) – This verse begets the infamous belief on the part of some Muslims that Jews are descended from swine and apes, since it says that wicked Jews (at least) were transformed by Allah in the past. (See also 2:64)
The Quran also contains dozens of verses that specifically describe Jews in the ugliest, most hateful terms. These parts of the Quran are indistinguishable from hate literature.
From the Hadith:
There are hundreds of verses from the traditions that speak of violence and hatred against non-Muslims, particularly Allah’s intense dislike, manifested by his plans to physically torture them for eternity.
Bukhari (54:487) – Someone asked, “O Allah’s Apostle This (ordinary) fire would have been sufficient (to torture the unbelievers),” Allah’s Apostle said, “The (Hell) Fire has 69 parts more than the ordinary (worldly) fire, each part is as hot as this (worldly) fire.” In other words, ordinary fire isn’t hot enough to torture non-Muslims. Therefore the fire in Hell is 69 times hotter.
Bukhari (2:28) – Women comprise the majority of Hell’s occupants. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).
Muslim (40:6831) – Non-Muslims in Hell will be given thick skin so as to prolong their agony (before they are given fresh skin for a new round of torture – Quran verse 4:56).
Bukhari (59:727) – Allah’s Apostle [said]… “Allah’s curse be on the Jews and the Christians” This was spoken on Muhammad’s death bed, and was one of the last things that he ever said.
Ishaq 240 – “The Jews are a nation of liars…. The Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people”
Additional Notes:
It is difficult to find justice in the character of the god of Islam. Not only does Allah appear to punish people disproportionately for mere unbelief, but he explicitly creates them to be nothing more than “fuel for the fire” of hell Quran (72:15) and he actually “causes the unjust to go astray” Quran (14:27) (see also verses 74:31 and 18:17) even though he has the ability to lead everyone down the right path Quran (16:9). A person’s good deeds are for naught Quran (18:104-106). Allah even sends the wives of “evil-doers” to Hell without apparent regard for their own guilt Quran (37:22).
The actions of Muslims often reflect this hatred for non-believers. Those who kill believe they have a religious mandate to do so. Others celebrate terror attacks, including the mass murder of 9/11, which was cheered by Muslims from Gaza to Europe and (reportedly) even in the halls of the U.S. State Department.
With hatred also confirmed by close to 500 verses that speak of Allah’s wrath on unbelievers, the effort to mine those rare diamonds that do speak of love and tolerance must be a true study in cherry picking. Such presentations are usually introduced with wild rhapsody (ie. “the following verses will shatter completely all the lies about Islam advocating or promoting hate. It shows total respect to people from different religions and backgrounds…”).
Yet, these apologists commonly ignore other, far more prevalent verses that do preach hatred, death, and doom. They also ignore the history of Islam and its relegation of nonbelievers to third-class status, with taxes and discrimination rooted in the Quran and traditions of Muhammad.
More importantly, they neglect to mention that these verses come from an earlier time period and are abrogated by later ones.
Take the most popular example, Quran (2:62) – “Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” Well, if this isn’t universal tolerance for other faiths, then what is?
But unfortunately this is also from the earliest Medinan Sura (the same one that famously speaks of “no compulsion in religion”). It was “revealed” just after Muhammad and his 100 followers were expelled from Mecca and desperately needed to make alliances with the people around them in their new home town of Medina. Most of their neighbors were not Muslims, and if Muhammad and his tiny group were to have informed the people around them of their religious inferiority and ultimate doom, then they would not have had the opportunity to gain power. By contrast, the 9th and 5th Suras are among the most intolerant of the Quran, and they are also considered the final revelations.
The same seems to hold true for Sura 3, which is an exercise in ambivalence. Verse 151 condemns Christians to Hell for believing in the Trinity, while verses 113-116 say that there are among the People of the Book who believe in Allah and the Last Day and are in “the ranks of the righteous.” In order to stay on the safe side, however, Muhammad warns in verse 118 against taking “for intimate friends from among others than your own people.” It also helps to remember that this Sura was an early Median verse, like Sura 2, but it follows the Battle of Badr, and occurs at a time when Muslims were gaining strength in the community and could afford to be a bit more arrogant.
Taken as a whole, no other religion on earth has the mandate that Islam does to dominate those outside the faith politically and culturally. Non-Muslims are to be subjugated and forced to pay money to Muslims, according to the Quran’s 9th sura and various Hadith. Islamic law (Sharia) not only governs the affairs of Muslims, but non-Muslims as well. It proscribes a body of rules that systematically discriminate against those of other faiths, denying them legal rights, restricting their religious practices, and even determining where they are allowed to build houses.
One of the more common tricks that today’s Muslims disingenuously play on the truly naive is to pretend that that Muhammad commanded his followers to love and not to hate. This is a partial truth. There are Hadith that tell Muslims not to hate and not to do harm in word or deed (Muslim (1:65)) but the context and exact wording makes it very clear that this applies within the Muslim community to a believer’s relations with fellow Muslims. These are not commands that govern a Muslim’s obligation to the general community. As the
Another game that Muslim scholars play to compensate for the absence of verses commanding universal love is to appeal to verses of the Bible that provide this instruction. Such scholars assert that since Islam is based on the two earlier religions of Judaism and Christianity, it therefore inherits the concepts of peace, love and tolerance that are missing from the Quran.
But, of course, Muslims are not taught to believe the Old and New Testaments outright. There is no rote memorization of such scripture as there is for the Quran. There are also abundant historical and theological contradictions between the Quran and the Bible, from the Trinity to Redemption. For example, the Quran says that the crucifixion never happened (something that hardly anyone else denies). Of course, it also claims that the mother of Jesus was the sister of Moses as well, since the characters share the same name, even though they are separated by at least 13 centuries. (Needless to say, the Quran really isn’t the best source for Judeo-Christian theology).
In short, it is highly disingenuous for Muslims to fill in the missing pieces of their faith by picking and choosing what they will from other religions to conveniently fit the fashion of the times. (This is particularly tasteless given the persecution that Muslim rulers have meted out historically on non-Muslim populations). Even though the practice of manufacturing Islam began with Muhammad, there are reasons why this military leader chose to say so very little about universal love and brotherhood, yet so very much about killing and eternal doom.
Democracyistheanswer
FGM is ‘merely cultural’ according to Rabbi Bentley, but what are the facts?
Mohammed:
-Abu-Dawud, Book 41, No.5251: “Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.”
Religious leader of all Egypt:
-In 1994, Egyptian Mufti Sheikh Jad Al-Hāqq ‘Ali Jad Al-Hāqq issued a fatwa stating, “Circumcision is mandatory for men and for women. If the people of any village decide to abandon it, the village imam must fight against them as if they had abandoned the call to prayer.” [60] The Al-Azhar University in Cairo has issued several fatwas endorsing FGC, in 1949, 1951 and 1981.
University scholar of Islam:
-Sheikh Muhammad Al-Mussayar notes:
“All the jurisprudents, since the advent of Islam and for 14 centuries or more, are in consensus that female circumcision is permitted by Islam. But they were divided with regard to its status in shari’a. Some said that female circumcision is required by shari’a, just like male circumcision. Some said this is the mainstream practice, while others said it is a noble act. But throughout the history of Islam, nobody has ever said that performing female circumcision is a crime. There has been a religious ruling on this for 14 centuries.”
Mohammed’s underage bride:
Muslim book 3 No. 684: Abu Musa reported: There cropped up a difference of opinion between a group of Muhajirs “.He (Abu Musa, the narrator) said: I got up (and went) to ‘A’isha and sought her permission and it was granted” I said: What makes a bath obligatory for a person? She replied: You have come across one well informed! The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When anyone sits amidst four parts (of the woman) and the circumcised parts touch each other a bath becomes obligatory.
Leader of Islamic Jurisprudents:
-Dr. Muhammad Salim al-Awwa, Secretary General of the World Union of the Muslim Ulemas agrees that the hadith (about female circumcision according to Aisha) is authentic.
Rabbi Bentley, Islam’s top authorities are not on your side. Your informants are telling you a ‘liberalized’ Islam which is heretical. You are gullible enough to believe them.
DanS.
Check the “Rabbi’s” bio – he does move around a bunch. why? He’s one of those CodePink morons. He is now in South Carolina…or was, at some lefty temple…or until they find out he is a flake or fake, and get his butt tossed.
No creds.
DanS.
Hey Rabbi? al-wala’ w’al-bara’.
stay blind – in the ghetto, you would be one of those who encouraged the Jews to get on the trains.
I’ll choose the Fighting Organization. You can choose the Black Hat.
Tom Thomson
I resent bitterly the rabbi slandering Christians in America by comparing them to Al Qaeda.
Christians do not behead their enemies, do not genitally mutilate little girls, do not place bombs on subways, do not drive trucks filled with explosives into markets, Christians are not trying daily to invade Israel and attack her citizens nor are Christians murdering 100,000 Muslims every year as Muslims do. That’s more than one million Christians murdered by Muslims since 9-11.
The rabbi invents ‘hundreds of Christian hate groups’ and presents this this as fact? Can he name one?
Where does he get off with his hyperbole, factoids and self-righteousness? He’s nothing but a self-promoter.
All I read is the rabbi’s hatred for Christians.
There’s no worse comparison to make than ‘Al Qaeda’.
The rabbi owes all Christians an apology!
Ken
The rabbi is well-meaning, but his facts do not support the proposition of a peaceful version Islam sans jihad.
It is mere wishful thinking.
His theory is that Muslims who practice Islam-Ã -la-carte are still valid Muslims, rather than heretics. Such people are called ‘the people of bida’ or ‘munafiq’ (hypocrites). Islam is very unforgiving towards them.
– “There is no such thing as good bida’h or bad bida’h in religion, all bida’hs are misguidance and for all misguidance is hell.”
-Sufyaan ath-Thowree (rahima-hullaah) mentions:
“Innovation is more beloved to Iblees than sin, since a sin may be repented from but innovation is not repented from.”
al-Laalikaa’ee – Sharh Usool I’tiqaad Ahlis-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah (no. 238)
-Imaam al-Barbahaaree (rahima-hullaah) said:
“The innovators are like scorpions.
They bury their heads and bodies in the sand and leave their tails out.
When they get the chance they sting; the same with the innovators who conceal themselves amongst the people, when they are able, they do what they desire.”
Reported in Tabaqaatul-Hanaabilah – Volume 2, Page 44 and Manhajul-Ahmad. Sharhus-Sunnah – Imaam al-Barbahaaree
Finally the rabbi should learn that:
THE GOLDEN RULE IS BIDA’ SINCE IT WAS LEFT OUT OF THE KORAN
Al-Nawawi recorded ‘Forty Hadiths’ including what has been called ‘the fake Golden Rule of Islam’. It does not call for reciprocal treatment of Kafirs. Al-Nawawi explains his hadith himself below. He says that all Kafirs should become Muslims, not that Kafirs should be treated as well as Muslims.
Al-Nawawi’s own words in no way add the Golden Rule into the allegedly perfect and complete words of Allah.
THE POINT IS THIS: If one needs to add the Golden Rule to the Koran, the Koran is no longer perfect, but incomplete and flawed.
To add the Golden Rule is blasphemous and bid’a (innovation). In Islam, all innovation is bad.
Nawawi interprets his hadith himself in Sharh Arba’in, 123:
The Muslim “wants for his non-Muslim brother what he would want for himself, that is [read: min li-l-bayan] his converting to Islam; just as he wants for his Muslim brother, his remaining in Islam. That is why it is recommended to supplicate for divine guidance [Hidaya] on behalf of the non-Muslim.”
The rabbi has LAZILY let someone else think for him and has not read the author’s commentary on the hadith he wrote.
The rabbi has little regard for facts.
Dave London
Dear Mr. Warner,
That was a superb rebuttal to an ignorant rabbi’s attack. I admired your composure and restraint.
As a Jew, I have long been distrustful of many rabbis, especially the smug and pseudo-intelligent ones who know nothing about Islam (and deep down don’t want to know). Any facts that don’t fit their p.c., leftist, utopian view of the world are rejected, ignored. This guy won’t even go back to the koran to see that your claims are true. At heart, Jews of his ilk are more concerned with remaining on cocktail party lists and social climbing than concerned about the survival of Jews and of the West generally.
A rabbi like this is no better than the last Archbishop of Canterbury, except that the Archbishop knew at some level that he is a dhimmi. This rabbi, I think, does not have a clue yet as to how deeply impregnated with dhimmitude his brain is.
Let’s hope this rebbe actually goes to the MEMRI website and educates himself a bit, but the smar money says he won’t.
Too many Jews now think that being Jewish means being endlessly obedient to the left, and the left is not the admirable thing it used to be. It is openly anti-Christian, anti-Jewish and of course anti-Zionist. Less openly, it is pro jihad. Just look at our foreign policy now and the fact that we are supporting AQ and the MB.
Thank you for all your important work.
Dave L.
Charles Martel
The rabbi is in total denial much like most Progressives when faced with actual facts.
A group of ACT for America members protested the invitation by the Henry Knox Museum (George Washington’s Sec. of State) of Abderrahim Foukara, Bureau Chief, for Al-Jazeera, in Maine a few summers ago. Foukara was promoting the so-called Arab Spring.
The most cantankerous defender of this invitation was a rabbi who had no idea that the Emir of Qatar financed Al-Jazeera which spews Islamic propaganda and promotes the Muslim Brotherhood’s agenda.
Incidents/debates like these really make me wonder if these rabbis received their credentials from a Cracker Jack box.
In the late 1930s, Moshe the Beadle tried to warn his village and synagogue about what the Nazis were up to and Bill Warner is doing the same with the threat of Islam. This rabbi should be ashamed of himself…but that won’t ever happen.
Steffen Larsen
Ali Sina wrote on this: that the islamic Golden Rule is only meant for muslim interactions, while the muslim is not to make a friend of the non-muslim, the worst of creatures.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/05/islam-and-the-golden-rule.html
Anti-Dellusionist
Dear Well Intention Rabbi,
As a non christian, and as regards some important differences between Islam and other religions or spiritual paths; the Koran espouses violence, this is an undeniable fact. There are vast amounts of quotes concerning waht to do to non believers. I do also believe that Mr Warner has read the Koran – having counted and analyzed every word within it for its associations. Again as a non christian I would agree that Mr Warner is probably a devout christian, but unlike muslims if he adheres to a literal interpretation of the New Testament the worst he will do is to “love your enemies” in your direction. Both Islam and Christianity have dark periods in their history – all religions do. The difference however is that only Islam is “doing as instructed”. Christians being violent is contradictary to how they are instructed to behave. I really do hope that for the sake of every person on this planet that people such as yourselves could face up to the reality of what Islam means for all non muslims, the facts speak for themselves. We all need to acknowledge there is a problem so we can take the next step in resolving it – then we can avoid the warfare that is inevitable as people begin to defend themselves from a hostile theocratic ideology that is determined that there “shall be no god but allah and mohammed is his messenger”. And if you are honest with yourself you already know who is number one on the “death to all” list.
Peace
leigh
“None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.”
“That which you want for yourself, seek for mankind.”[63]”
“Brother” in the Quran refers to Muslims not non Muslims – enemies are to be killed or subjugated. (see for eg the Ibn Kathir commentary )
Muslims seek Islam for mankind -not freedom.as Bill demonstrates with the Pact of Omar
OrdinaryGuy
Rabbi P. Bentley
I understand your comments, where you are coming from and your desire for a better world. With the greatest respect let me say that I too share your desire for everyone to “get along” on this tiny planet of ours.
But I am not convinced:
Your golden rule quotes lead me to wonder: What if the person “himself” or “yourself” wants only Islam, the peace of Islam and Sharia Law for his brothers in the world?
That is quite different from “Do unto others …”
Your suggestions are passive – not active.
I think it is great that you’ve stood up to Islamic hatred for decades – I just don’t see the major leaders of Islam standing up.
Where was the condemnation of the genocide in Kenya?
Why are Koranic verses which speak of no faiths other than Islam being tolerated/rewarded/liked/accepted … (9:29, 3:85 … 9:33 for example) why are these not loudly proclaimed by the leaders of Islam as being wrong. Plain and simple – wrong. Until then bad people are free to use them and everyone else within the faith has their hands tied.
Until major leaders of Islam (Sunni and Shia) do this I remain skeptical.
vangrungy
Rabbi Bentley is the kind of Jew that helps bring about the conditions for more eradication of Jews.
Doesn’t this dope understand that Nazis and Muslims share the common goal of killing every last Jew on earth?
vangrungy
The talmudic moron can’t understand that all non-muslims are considered sub-human in islam.
the rabbi must have paid for the islamic propaganda he spews
Rabbi Philip J Bentley
Mr. Warner
Your response here is filled with errors of fact as is almost everything people like you publish about Islam.
The basic error is in trying to attribute to Islam in general what is only true of the kind of political Islamists who are trying to remove modern influences from the Muslim world.
You plainly depend on most of your readings never having read the Koran or studied Islamic history, culture, philosophy, etc. Most of the Koran is about how to live a good life.
Your assertion that Islam has no version of the Golden Rule is patently false. Here are two examples from the Hadith.
“None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.”
“That which you want for yourself, seek for mankind.”[63]
Those are two of several.
In the usual passive aggressive manner you accuse me of “Christo-phobia.” In fact I have been actively involved with interfaith activities since I was a teenager. In my community I am very welcome as a teacher in local churches.
I am quite familiar with the dark side of Islaic history and also the dark side of Christian history, neither of which is over. The army of the Lord in east and central Africa. There are hundreds of Christian hate groups in our country. None of these is normative Christianity just as Al-Qaeda is not normative Islam.
The concept of jihad is misused alike by today’s Jihadists and by Islamophobes. The term primarily refers to the personal struggle of the individual to overcome temptation and like a good life. The lesser jihad refers to holy wars in defense of Islam. Jihadis comfort themselves for their crimes by thinking that fighting against the West and modernity in general even as they violate the explicit rules of jihad against attacking noncombatants.
I have been active in standing up to Islamic hatreds for decades including as an NGO delegate at UN meetings. I have done it on campus, in communal settings, and elsewhere.
I became active in interfaith work because I grew up in a community with a lot of Holocaust survivors. My rabbi, who was a survivor who had grown up in Nazi Germany, believed that it was poor relations among different faith groups that allowed the Nazis to sell the German people on demonizing Jews.
I know where teaching hate leads to and that is Auschwitz. Your response to me denies you are a hate group publishing hate literature. I have dealt with such things all of my life and I know it when I see it and I see it in you.
I am guessing that you are a fundamentalist Christian and an adherent of right-wing politics, because that is where most of this kind of literature comes from these days.
I am saddened and frightened by the promotion of hatred you represent. I know all too well how similar it is to accusations against Jews in the last century. You are no better than Fr. Coughlin and seem to me to be his spiritual brother.
L’shalom,
(because I seek the perfect world my tradition teaches me to work for)
Rabbi Phil Bentley